Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from hogtown.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Tue, 14 May 91 01:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4c=rICi00WBwA3ok4I@andrew.cmu.edu> Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Tue, 14 May 91 01:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #541 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 541 Today's Topics: NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 1 Re: Why the space station? --> People working at the JPL <-- Re: Why the space station?y Re: Gas Guns and Tethers Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 May 91 21:02:44 GMT From: udecc.engr.udayton.edu!blackbird.afit.af.mil!tkelso@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (TS Kelso) Subject: NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 1 The most current orbital elements from the NASA Prediction Bulletins are carried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated several times weekly. Documentation and tracking software are also available on this system. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current of these elements are uploaded weekly to sci.space. This week's elements are provided below. The Celestial BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, or 2400 baud using 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity. - Current NASA Prediction Bulletins #844a - Alouette 1 1 00424U 62B-A 1 91126.01360940 .00000296 00000-0 34337-3 0 4245 2 00424 80.4677 327.7809 0022885 160.2612 199.9415 13.67524240426816 ATS 3 1 03029U 67111 A 91128.71558822 -.00000076 00000-0 99999-4 0 5752 2 03029 13.6002 18.4170 0015304 226.1871 133.6640 1.00272979 86058 Cosmos 398 1 04966U 71 16 A 91130.17487396 .00088298 19646-4 42499-3 0 6026 2 04966 51.4969 103.8346 2033563 69.9097 310.8286 11.58005661628599 Starlette 1 07646U 75010 A 91126.91834198 -.00000120 00000-0 -47005-4 0 2738 2 07646 49.8295 321.0909 0206192 180.0167 180.0750 13.82156144820555 LAGEOS 1 08820U 76039 A 91127.40934854 .00000005 00000-0 99999-4 0 2784 2 08820 109.8251 106.1932 0044174 169.6858 190.4414 6.38665611 94649 GOES 2 1 10061U 77048 A 91128.71340884 -.00000250 00000-0 99999-4 0 6231 2 10061 8.9868 59.6247 0106887 34.8618 323.7099 1.00237956 52274 IUE 1 10637U 78012 A 91118.84928871 -.00000179 00000-0 79862-4 0 2731 2 10637 32.8031 113.8243 1404960 1.7727 358.6579 1.00280813 9630 GPS-0001 1 10684U 78020 A 91123.04731431 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 6736 2 10684 63.9038 79.6530 0126430 199.5527 159.9358 2.00553401 82262 GPS-0002 1 10893U 78 47 A 91129.53396580 -.00000022 00000-0 99999-4 0 3806 2 10893 64.2344 320.3005 0173093 24.3276 336.5070 2.00533300 95213 GOES 3 1 10953U 78062 A 91127.03593988 .00000109 00000-0 99999-4 0 1289 2 10953 7.7191 62.4474 0005084 106.7928 253.1835 1.00292759 329 SeaSat 1 1 10967U 78064 A 91129.04700911 .00001548 00000-0 56803-3 0 5429 2 10967 108.0220 273.0999 0003629 202.3849 157.7110 14.36595593673238 GPS-0003 1 11054U 78093 A 91127.77516676 -.00000021 00000-0 99999-4 0 4272 2 11054 63.6617 316.4298 0066053 117.1810 243.5141 2.00572012 92194 Nimbus 7 1 11080U 78098 A 91128.24696047 .00000167 00000-0 18083-3 0 7761 2 11080 99.1739 30.4407 0008564 298.8743 61.1549 13.83549939632980 GPS-0004 1 11141U 78112 A 91127.90529676 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 1805 2 11141 63.8998 79.3906 0061987 311.0990 48.3677 2.00544956 90897 GPS-0005 1 11690U 80 11 A 91128.04168801 .00000005 00000-0 99999-4 0 1756 2 11690 64.3531 81.6615 0124515 203.4894 155.9227 2.00552130 96752 GPS-0006 1 11783U 80 32 A 91115.00000000 -.00000021 00000-0 99999-4 0 4730 2 11783 63.2389 316.5436 0189980 28.8358 75.5682 2.03449999 80572 GOES 5 1 12472U 81049 A 91127.96637751 .00000139 00000-0 99999-4 0 1277 2 12472 4.2748 71.6930 0004633 277.2971 82.6382 1.00265025 35480 Cosmos 1383 1 13301U 82 66 A 91129.26817151 .00000207 00000-0 23158-3 0 7262 2 13301 82.9290 61.7830 0028188 346.0512 13.9847 13.67918100442258 LandSat 4 1 13367U 82 72 A 91129.64537262 .00000796 00000-0 18660-3 0 7934 2 13367 98.1139 189.9130 0003126 169.2126 190.9095 14.57160494468847 IRAS 1 13777U 83 4 A 91127.57876041 .00000140 00000-0 12104-3 0 9792 2 13777 99.0196 324.1485 0011992 212.9960 147.0452 13.98948276 92291 Cosmos 1447 1 13916U 83 21 A 91126.06484834 .00000195 00000-0 19561-3 0 8247 2 13916 82.9467 133.3753 0038063 323.1376 36.7153 13.74142624407019 TDRS 1 1 13969U 83 26 B 91127.02435959 .00000131 00000-0 99999-4 0 3835 2 13969 5.2399 63.0935 0004116 338.0007 21.9430 1.00285246 2590 GOES 6 1 14050U 83 41 A 91126.95520299 .00000114 00000-0 99999-4 0 4761 2 14050 3.0337 74.3706 0004434 250.1416 109.0611 1.00254065 1382 OSCAR 10 1 14129U 83 58 B 91121.60065856 -.00000148 00000-0 99998-4 0 6710 2 14129 25.8131 148.0591 6035385 238.5955 48.7305 2.05930413 31282 GPS-0008 1 14189U 83 72 A 91127.26843059 .00000002 00000-0 99999-4 0 9744 2 14189 63.5349 77.7057 0142802 225.6010 133.2080 2.00568101 57261 LandSat 5 1 14780U 84 21 A 91129.68155940 .00000428 00000-0 99999-4 0 6490 2 14780 98.2344 190.5847 0001807 99.4833 260.6602 14.57096689382266 UoSat 2 1 14781U 84 21 B 91129.61832083 .00001995 00000-0 36515-3 0 144 2 14781 97.9004 175.8655 0011441 295.1747 64.8268 14.66864671383798 GPS-0009 1 15039U 84 59 A 91129.43646660 .00000002 00000-0 99999-4 0 2276 2 15039 63.2897 76.7429 0029007 226.4007 133.3433 2.00565202 50589 Cosmos 1574 1 15055U 84 62 A 91129.66062690 .00000168 00000-0 16954-3 0 762 2 15055 82.9601 181.6318 0028308 131.6953 228.6630 13.73453777344882 GPS-0010 1 15271U 84 97 A 91128.88316914 -.00000021 00000-0 99999-4 0 753 2 15271 63.0350 315.3160 0112701 332.8107 26.6196 2.00564973 47681 Cosmos 1602 1 15331U 84105 A 91129.30391814 .00004638 00000-0 60101-3 0 5945 2 15331 82.5552 58.2586 0021954 351.0356 9.0458 14.80484197356297 NOAA 9 1 15427U 84123 A 91123.10234242 .00000560 00000-0 32130-3 0 7778 2 15427 99.1703 135.5346 0014869 187.1450 172.9510 14.12985564329151 GPS-0011 1 16129U 85 93 A 91123.61629357 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 7742 2 16129 64.0476 78.1790 0122890 147.3284 213.4157 2.00565159 40786 Mir 1 16609U 86 17 A 91130.06517912 .00041853 00000-0 39496-3 0 4573 2 16609 51.6027 120.7009 0008199 196.9929 163.0478 15.66567351299190 SPOT 1 1 16613U 86 19 A 91129.72836125 -.00003753 00000-0 -17587-2 0 3362 2 16613 98.6891 204.3281 0001159 171.9393 188.1867 14.19983263110275 Cosmos 1766 1 16881U 86 55 A 91129.41786115 .00003380 00000-0 44512-3 0 4373 2 16881 82.5383 116.8400 0021849 8.4484 351.7117 14.79746092257353 EGP 1 16908U 86 61 A 91125.70537642 -.00000037 00000-0 12710-4 0 3728 2 16908 50.0148 344.4914 0011206 297.1403 62.8289 12.44394662215014 NOAA 10 1 16969U 86 73 A 91128.07869586 .00000722 00000-0 32979-3 0 6299 2 16969 98.5678 153.2991 0014451 47.7612 312.4791 14.24111172240847 MOS-1 1 17527U 87 18 A 91129.22695475 -.00000651 00000-0 -47185-3 0 8405 2 17527 99.0508 201.9629 0000977 31.1770 328.9460 13.94858662214715 GOES 7 1 17561U 87 22 A 91125.67778907 -.00000048 00000-0 99999-4 0 8292 2 17561 0.0622 84.2637 0005013 249.1418 26.3961 1.00272707 8809 Kvant-1 1 17845U 87 30 A 91130.00132785 .00111752 00000-0 10339-2 0 5893 2 17845 51.6068 121.0277 0008538 216.6776 143.0413 15.66634943233913 DMSP B5D2-3 1 18123U 87 53 A 91129.98135439 .00000860 00000-0 46680-3 0 9881 2 18123 98.8146 321.2189 0014507 169.2053 190.9434 14.14574285200599 RS-10/11 1 18129U 87 54 A 91129.99631670 .00000210 00000-0 22015-3 0 6418 2 18129 82.9241 87.0776 0010416 296.6140 63.3941 13.72184185194352 Meteor 2-16 1 18312U 87 68 A 91129.73608043 .00000391 00000-0 34212-3 0 6790 2 18312 82.5562 31.4610 0014088 56.8870 303.3623 13.83789899188142 Meteor 2-17 1 18820U 88 5 A 91129.87561873 .00000164 00000-0 13614-3 0 5251 2 18820 82.5411 90.7522 0017469 122.4533 237.8325 13.84478135165381 DMSP B5D2-4 1 18822U 88 6 A 91129.97442588 .00000757 00000-0 35962-3 0 8875 2 18822 98.5993 6.5226 0007550 51.4028 308.7826 14.22002956169252 Glonass 34 1 19163U 88 43 A 91129.28136463 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 2947 2 19163 64.9185 148.2749 0007251 204.3432 155.6779 2.13102468 23094 Glonass 36 1 19165U 88 43 C 91128.39967163 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 2927 2 19165 64.8989 148.3068 0005289 318.5509 41.4675 2.13102872 23078 AO-13 1 19216U 88 51 B 91121.30113593 .00000118 00000-0 99999-4 0 2712 2 19216 56.8390 97.0967 7167973 253.2812 22.8340 2.09698033 22073 OKEAN 1 1 19274U 88 56 A 91129.70117557 .00003898 00000-0 52345-3 0 1391 2 19274 82.5176 215.3220 0022164 132.7684 227.5379 14.78929196153140 Meteor 3-2 1 19336U 88 64 A 91129.80938282 .00000057 00000-0 13060-3 0 7779 2 19336 82.5435 46.3457 0016056 214.2141 145.7951 13.16922930133941 Glonass 39 1 19503U 88 85 C 91128.41955695 -.00000018 00000-0 99999-4 0 1959 2 19503 65.4704 27.6147 0004463 190.5755 169.4495 2.13103483 20568 NOAA 11 1 19531U 88 89 A 91129.09657406 .00000329 00000-0 19995-3 0 5290 2 19531 99.0260 83.5978 0013205 87.0373 273.2308 14.12127430134958 TDRS 2 1 19548U 88 91 B 91110.90513269 .00000112 00000-0 99999-4 0 2716 2 19548 0.8845 79.9671 0002661 323.4904 316.4340 1.00273658 8004 Glonass 40 1 19749U 89 1 A 91128.46098704 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 9943 2 19749 64.8613 147.9640 0007738 275.5512 84.4144 2.13101811 18094 Glonass 41 1 19750U 89 1 B 91129.92679713 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 190 2 19750 64.8791 147.9402 0007836 258.0438 101.9266 2.13102256 18129 GPS BII-01 1 19802U 89013 A 91103.54677754 .00000080 00000-0 26739 3 0 02338 2 19802 055.0738 185.5709 0049862 165.7198 194.4554 02.00562574015774 Akebono 1 19822U 89 16 A 91128.34960965 .00035068 00000-0 19249-2 0 135 2 19822 75.0921 77.1409 4088239 11.1010 355.7701 7.28831125 23206 Meteor 2-18 1 19851U 89 18 A 91129.57136808 .00000228 00000-0 19458-3 0 4773 2 19851 82.5233 328.4000 0014316 163.7247 196.4368 13.84131752110713 MOP-1 1 19876U 89 20 B 91 83.49540771 .00000025 00000-0 99999-4 0 1840 2 19876 0.2910 50.4188 0001552 314.1531 355.4087 1.00273956 3471 TDRS 3 1 19883U 89 21 B 91116.52037556 -.00000238 00000-0 99999-4 0 2738 2 19883 0.9155 81.5128 0007921 325.1411 313.3703 1.00267462 78038 GPS BII-02 1 20061U 89 44 A 91103.87321174 -.00000034 00000-0 99999-4 0 2711 2 20061 54.8877 3.6255 0090918 184.4845 175.4971 2.00566450 13525 Nadezhda 1 1 20103U 89 50 A 91129.79003137 .00000169 00000-0 16851-3 0 3758 2 20103 82.9634 44.2457 0036235 207.5788 152.3441 13.73687780 92553 GPS BII-03 1 20185U 89064 A 91104.71060838 -.00000123 00000-0 00000 0 0 01797 2 20185 054.9166 186.3301 0020176 172.0341 188.0316 02.00562496012111 -- Dr TS Kelso Assistant Professor of Space Operations tkelso@blackbird.afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 91 02:17:54 GMT From: swrinde!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@ucsd.edu (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Why the space station? In article <1991May7.024811.8157@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> rwmurphr@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Robert W Murphree) writes: > >In summmary, the plausibility of the sequence "first you build reliable >space transportation, then you build a orbital space base, then you go >to the planets" is seriously in question. All you really need to do >important space science is a big booster -a titan IV. The head of the >space telescope institute-Giaconni has said that he would much rather >launch the space telescope into high eliptical orbit and then replace it >with a new copy than low orbit with manned servicing. The real reason >for the space station is an ignorant past president who probably consulted >his wife's astrologer to determine which day to announce the space station. >The space station is pure pork. If you assume that you are never going to do large scale in space assembly and that you are never going to need to launch really large probes into deep space or to the planets using exotic propulsion systems, or if you assume that large scale human presence in space is never going to occur and that you don't need life science data for long term zero G existence, then a space station is a pork barrel. Otherwise, it is the logical next step. A valid question is whether Fred is that space station, but the need for a space station remains. The situation with space scientists is similar to the idea of using dugout canoes for transoceanic exploration rather than wasting money developing proper ocean going vessels simply because it impacts *their* pet projects *now*. Space will still be there twenty or thirty years from now. Developing the proper transportation systems to make deep space more easily and cheaply accessable will, in the long run, make space science much more productive. Gary ------------------------------ Date: 9 May 91 02:34:02 GMT From: csus.edu!wuarchive!sdd.hp.com!mips!pacbell.com!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!dsinc!ub!ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu!v096my2q@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (Mark A Wieczorek) Subject: --> People working at the JPL <-- Hello to everybody working at the JPL! I got a job through the Planetary Geology and Geophysics research program working on the Magellan mapping project this summer at the JPL. I would be interested in talking to people who are currently working on this project and know what is going on. I keep getting lots of cool maps of venus and manuals on the spacecraft in the mail, but I only have a very vague idea of what people do who are working on this project. I was told that depending on my interests I could be working on the mapping project, developing planetary models or working with various computer related things. Well I have a physics background with almost no geology, but hey, they knew what they were paying for! I'd be interested in hearing from people who are specifically working in some way with the magellan so I could learn more about what is done and what I could be doing. If you have some spare time please write me at: v096my2q@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Mark Wieczorek ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 91 00:43:07 GMT From: hub.ucsb.edu!ucsbuxa!3001crad@ucsd.edu (Charles Frank Radley) Subject: Re: Why the space station?y collision risk is smaller for Freedom with Shuttle than Progress with Mir. The Shuttle is manned with several crewmembers watching the proceedings. ------------------------------ Date: 9 May 91 03:19:43 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!hybrid!torag!w-dnes!waltdnes@ucsd.edu (Walter Dnes ) Subject: Re: Gas Guns and Tethers wreck@fmsrl7.UUCP (Ron Carter) writes: > In article waltdnes%w-dnes@torag.uucp writes: > [regarding capturing sub-orbital payloads with a tether] > >Theoretical problem 1) The centre-of-mass of the combined structure has > >instantaneously dropped closer to the earth's surface without the orbital > >velocity increasing. The result should be a lower orbit. > > This is not a problem. It requires only: > a.) that the decrease in the size of the orbit be managable, or > b.) the opposite end of the orbit be higher to compensate. > > Yes, so? Is an absolutely constant orbit a requirement? For what? > Note that the orbit has dropped. It will drop *EACH TIME THAT YOU REEL IN A SHUTTLE*. Do it often enough, and you'll be cruising at the top of the atmosphere... "Son of Skylab". Of course you could fire a rocket engine to boost the combined spacestation-and-shuttle back up. But that would be equivalent to having fired the shuttle up to the higher orbit in the first place !!! Reeling in the shuttle to raise its orbit is no different than firing the shuttle's engines to raise its orbit. In both cases you're looking at raising an object against gravity. The net work is the same... _ r=GEO / Where G = gravitational constant | GMm GMm GMm M = mass of earth | --- dr = --- - --- m = mass of shuttle | r^2 LEO GEO LEO = radius of Low Earth Orbit _/ GEO = Geosynchronous Earth Orbit r=LEO all orbital radii relative to centre of earth > If you'd take a detailed look at the energy and angular momentum > transfers, you'd realize that tethers don't offer a free lunch, or > a free launch. What they give you is checking and credit, letting > you loan or transfer energy and angular momentum w/o using rockets. In another reply on this thread, I made a glaring error that would seem to allow this scheme to work. I assumed that a shuttle could be "reeled out". ( Silly me, I'll never graduate to sci.skeptic this way. ) If the shuttle detaches and the main station unreels several thousand miles of tether... you'll merely end up with an atrocious "crowsnest" like no fisherman has ever seen before. The shuttle will tend to remain in the same orbit as the station, *UNLESS IT FIRES ITS ROCKET ENGINES TO DE-ORBIT*. That's what the shuttle has to do right now. Our disagreement seems to boil down to this... I see 2 expenditures of energy; raising the shuttle from LEO to GEO, and then dropping from GEO to LEO. You seem to believe that two shuttles (1 coming, 1 going) can cancel each other out. I.e. you think that energy can be transferred from one shuttle to the other. I think that you've run afoul of the 2nd law of thermodynamics (entropy) with something resembling Maxwell's demons that could filter cold and hot molecules in a gas. Rather than us making general statements to each other, how about you coming up with a solution that is consistent with known physical laws and posting it here ? It only takes one counter- example to prove me wrong. Can you do it ? Walter Dnes (Please tell me I got the headers right this time) ----------------------------------------------------------------- waltdnes@w-dnes.UUCP waltdnes%w-dnes@torag.UUCP hybrid!torag!w-dnes!waltdnes 73710.3066@compuserve.com ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #541 *******************